4. There will typically be several such cookies, each beginning with "gdpr" (e.g., gdpr[allowed_cookies], gdpr&5Bprivacy_bar&5D, and gdpr[consent_types]). A 5 percent slippage factor means that if the impeller is spinning 3,000 rpm, the turbine is only spinning 2,850, or 5 percent slower. Keep reading to find out these common torque converter problems and how to fix them. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. Ate Up With Motor and its embedded content providers may use cookies and/or similar technologies and collect personal information about site visitors as described in the Privacy Policy and Cookie Notice. Plugging it back in all the way and resetting the PCM took care of that problem. If you correctly enter the password, the site saves this cookie on your device to allow you access to the password-protected post or page. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 What to Do to Fix Slipping or Shuddering. Second, the nonlinear relationship between impeller and turbine speed can be troublesome. Currently the vehicle is much better to drive. This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. They normally expire after about one year. I have yet to read this monumental work in depth. However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. I was running the KEM 250 and 310 tunes. Part 3 of 3 High Performance Academy Sonnax and SIU - Mega Torque. Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform). Any reading below 10 RPM slip is really errors in reading the sensors, not real slip. However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? Cookies whose names begin with "_ceg" are associated with the Crazy Egg web analytics service (which is subject to the Crazy Egg Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy). A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. 3. and 5. and our The torque converter, with its multiple elements, is being manufactured with an eye towards the future. Petrol / Gas. Archive - Unlike Ultramatic and many subsequent torque converter automatics, the converter of the DG series was completely inoperative in top gear, so obtaining any additional torque multiplication required a downshift to second gear. The transmission fluid is an important part of the torque converter in that it is used to provide the fluid coupling and smooth starts and without stalling the engine when the vehicle is stopped in gear. However, that did not cure the shuddering problem. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Well done and thank you; this must have been an enormous amount of work. In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. The drive fan moves air across the blades of the driven fan (which is turned off). I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. How ever this did happen right after I did the six 0 to 60 mph relearn runs. Over 10 RPM is real slip. Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. There are many different types oftorque converter problems. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. by SirHandyMan Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am, Post Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. The Vimeo Cookie Policy does not currently disclose the normal durations of the cookies and similar technologies the Vimeo platform uses, but it appears that some may remain in your browser (or other user agent) for as long as your settings permit. I switched from a junk converter slipping that much to a tight well built version and picked up .3 and 4mph behind a healthy smallblock (10.2's at 127mph) In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. The rear planet carrier is attached to the main shaft, which is also splined to the lockup clutch and drives the rear oil pump and governor (medium green). Click to reveal Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. With automated hydraulic operation and combinations of brakes and clutches, it was possible to get the same results more efficiently. You must be at least 18 to comment. copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. As the new owner of a 92 Alante with the viscous clutch I wondered what the difference was. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. You usually notice your car shuddering because itfeels like it's vibrating. Turbine speed tends to fall behind impeller speed any time load increases (for example, when going up a steep grade) and an increase in engine speed doesnt immediately produce a corresponding increase in turbine speed. (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. As these vehicles age, diagnosing these issues can become more challenging. What to Do to Fix Overheating and Seal Damage. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). This viscous connection is transmission fluid. The effective dates of the current versions are: Paid advertisements and/or sponsored links on Ate Up With Motor will be identified with words such as "Sponsor," "Sponsors," "Sponsored Link(s)," "Sponsored Content," "Ad," "Advertisement," "Advertisement(s)," or "Paid Promotion" (and/or by images or icons containing such words). If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - Change Background Color (Note: This option sets cookies on your device to manage your color settings; see the Cookie Notice for details.). The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. A spring-loaded plunger valve controlled oil flow to the lockup clutchs hydraulic cylinder. Your IP: If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. When the vehicle is at rest, the fluid clutch slips enough to allow the engine to idle with the transmission in gear without stalling. So I picked up a scan tool to save on the abundant diagnosing fees associated with owning a 2005 5.4 f150. The GM team that designed Hydra-Matic was certainly familiar with the Wilson preselector. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. This is due in part to the technological advances in torque converters. In fact, Cadillacs chief engineer ordered an early Daimler Double Six with the Wilson and Laurence Pomeroys Fluid Flywheel for evaluation purposes. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. Cookie Notice The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Hydraulic slippage also offers some advantages during acceleration: As with a plate clutch, a certain amount of slip makes for a much smoother takeoff. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. if I'm seeing "desired TC slip" of 1020rpm at all times wouldnt that pretty much guarantee the TC would never lock? Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. Privacy Statement - Well Aaron . Theglobal torque converter marketcontinues to grow and expand at a CAGR of 4.54%, which is projected until 2021. Do you want them slipping when driving? Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. This is why a disc clutch must be disengaged or the transmission shifted to neutral whenever the vehicle stops. abs thank you for posting your experience here. This is a session cookie that verifies that the user has entered valid user credentials pending receipt of the correct authentication code; the cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). (At this point, an updated, expanded edition wouldnt go amiss, given all the subsequent development in CVTs and automatics with five or more speeds.). The problems come in many sizes, shapes, and forms. This is not an official website of any automaker or automotive brand! its the mechanically controlled aod. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. The wahFontColor and wahBgColor cookies, which are set if you alter the site's color scheme, normally expire after about 14 days, but you can remove them immediately by clicking the "Restore Defaults" button on the sidebar. JavaScript is disabled. New to the site and found it because of this read. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Cookie Policy - Even though Dyno numbers are just a number, For reference my 2018 Gen3 made 400rwhp/390rwtq stock with 5k miles on a Dynojet,, It hit the speed limiter at 6700. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. Privacy Policy. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b2fd769016 Performance & security by Cloudflare. The torque converter of the future will have a carefully tuned control strategy, which takes into account the torque demands of each vehicle. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. Such cookies and/or stored data items may be set by various domains (such as, though not necessarily limited to, youtube.com; youtube-nocookie.com; googlevideo.com; ytimg.com; google.com; accounts.google.com; www.googleadservices.com; and/or doubleclick.net, which is part of the DoubleClick advertising service, also owned by Google LLC). Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b42f522a79 check trans fluid. Most street torque. The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. The _ga and _gid cookies, which were only placed if you clicked "Accept/Enable" in the notification banner, enabled the Google Analytics service to track your activity on the site. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. 51.91.16.67 works great no real problems. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Impeller Pump The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. The turbine and lockup clutch driven plate are both splined to the transmission input shaft (medium blue). 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One way to minimize coupling slip is to supplement the fluid clutch with a plate clutch that engages when the vehicle reaches cruising speed. This slippage is part of what determines the stall speed of the converter. In second, the low band was released and the multi-disc clutch engaged, causing both ring gears to rotate at turbine speed. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. Except as otherwise indicated, all written content and images are copyright Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. The trans temp was never above 160 degrees. Many of the other listed cookies are associated with the Google Analytics service, the Google AdSense advertising service, and/or other Google advertising and measurement products, which are subject to the Google Privacy Policy; see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site, and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of the Google Business Data Responsibility site (which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products) for more information. A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. The turbine has a spline that attaches to the transmission input shaft, which connects to the internal parts of the transmission to shift gears and provide power to the wheels. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed.